RECORD OF TAPE-RECORDED INTERVIEW

Introductions of persons present. Tape procedure explained. Caution given, explained, and understood. The defendant was reminded of his entitlement to free and independent legal advice. Grounds and reasons for the arrest were outlined.

ABH/Section 39 common assault on 22/07/22.

Ackland: If you want to start maybe just before the incident and go right the way through it and give your story.

Jones: Sure, first I would like to say, as you are recording it, that if I do omit anything, it is an error of memory, not an intention to mislead anyone. Um, er, the gentleman in the, the guy in the car was coming out of whatever the road is that you mentioned, Denmark something, onto the main road, it was busy, I was coming back from shopping, his car was parked across the pavement, um, there were a lot of cars, as there always are, I walked in front of him, as I did, he drove forward, er, onto my leg, I put my hand on the bonnet, er, I shouted at him, he went forward again, er, um, I came out and I shouted to him that he ought to pay more attention, by this time he was up and out of the car, um, giving me verbal abuse, quite a feisty guy, just giving me lots of verbal abuse. I was telling him in no uncertain terms to pay attention to pedestrians, um, which he clearly wasn't. He got very angry, he was so angry he was spitting at me, he was close to my face, he was spitting at me. I asked him to back off, I asked him to stop spitting, he wouldn't, um, he then got back into his car, um, but his final departure from that, he was up in my face and then he did spit, he was in front of me, um, he spat actually virtually into my mouth and then got back into the car. Out of temper, I turned back at him and spat back at him. He got back out of the car, he grabbed me, grabbed my throat, he wasn't actually doing me a great deal of harm, but I wanted him off, I didn't know what he was doing, what, and, I, I, pushed, I pushed, from what I remember, with the flat of my hand. I certainly, it wasn't a punch, it, it wasn't. At that point, the guy hit the ground, and I thought great, just what I need. Actually, I went over to him to say look, come on mate, this is stupid, by that time I, I, noticed that actually he had bashed his head and people came. I asked somebody to call the police, I asked two people with mobile phones to call the police and an ambulance, sat and waited for you guys to come.

Ackland: Let's go back, you said the guy in the car, can you remember what the car was?

Jones: It was a sports car, I think it was a Porsche. I know that because I was quite anxious about what had happened and I asked one of the officers if I could go around the corner and just sit down on one of the doorsteps, yeah, and that's where I could clearly see the sports car. I, I just, I remember the shape; it reminded me of a Porsche, a sports Porsche.

Ackland: You said the car was coming out onto the main road, where had it come from?

Jones: It was stationary.

Ackland: And what was the road?

Jones: I don't know, I don't know, actually I don't know, it's got a name, hasn't it? Isn't it something Denmark something?

Ackland: The car comes out of there, you were a pedestrian, obviously, here. Were you walking?

Jones: On the pavement, but I, I, you know.

Ackland: Was that walking into town or away from town?

Jones: I was coming back from Broadmead, I was going up towards the traffic lights at the bottom of Park Street. The car was already blocking the pavement at that point, I don't know whether or not I moved out, walked out in the road to go around it, or whether there was still space, I suspect not. I can understand the misjudgement from both of us, I didn't like the abuse, and it went too far.

Ackland: You've obviously been walking along the pavement to go from A to B, you said he pulled forward as you were either trying to go around him or across the pavement...

Jones: At the point that he pulled forward I was directly in front of the car, the, the, I could feel the bumper up against my lower leg.

Ackland: Did you look at the driver?

Jones: I, I, didn't recognise his face. I remember putting my hand on the bonnet of the car, and that was just a reaction, I didn't thump the car—well, if it was a sports car (inaudible)—but I remember putting my hand on the bonnet, the instinct was to push, um, um, and then it stopped and came forward again, so that's it.

Ackland: Were you seen by the driver?

Jones: I don't know, I don't know.

Ackland: You say you made a comment about him watching out for pedestrians.

Jones: I swore at him.

Ackland: Can you remember what your exact words were?

Jones: No, no, I told him to look out for fucking pedestrians. At this point, you know, I didn't know, I didn't know how much danger I was in, er, but we clearly both didn't need to be in that danger. I couldn't see that anything was moving on St Augustine's Parade but then I wasn't particularly looking, you know, as I approached, I could see the car out there so it clearly wasn't going anywhere, it was sitting there. I saw it as I approached, so I went around it, and okay, he may have made a mistake, he may have not seen me, it is quite possible.

Ackland: There was another verbal exchange, can you remember what was said to you or what you said?

Jones: Well, I remember, he called me a dumb arsehole, or something similar at one stage, but I am not sure when it was that that happened. I remember being insulted several times. I remember that the guy was very, very feisty, he was just out of his car all the time, just, he had that attitude. I didn't really, I don't know how long I'm talking about, I mean this all seemed to happen in seconds, but I was saying, "look out for fucking pedestrians." I was aware that the car pulled out, stopped, pulled out again, I wasn't hurt by it, I was frightened by it, I was slightly angered by it. Um, if I am crossing the pavement when I am driving I leave space until somebody lets me out, so I was annoyed.

Ackland: So there was a verbal argument between the both of you?

Jones: Yeah.

Ackland: Can you remember what comments you made back to him? I know you said he called you a dumb arsehole.

Jones: I don't know. I would have called him an idiot because that's just a word that I use. I was amazed that he got out of the car and came at me, I was amazed. I, I was shocked that this guy had me by the throat. All I can remember about him was big sunglasses and a high collar, that's all I can remember. I had a mixture of common sense and nonsense in my head because I didn't know who he was, what he was doing, or if I was in danger. My immediate reaction was to get out. It wasn't my intention that he should have fallen over or hurt himself. It wasn't my intention that he should drive forward while I was in front of the car, the guy had almost driven on me. I was entitled to shout at him to be aware of people; from then it was just stupid and got out of control.

Ackland: Can you go into more detail of when the spitting started?

Jones: He got out of the car and we've had a row, and he was close up to my face. He called me a son of a bitch. He was spitting, and I told him, "move back, stop spitting at me," because I don't want people spitting at me. I said, "stop spitting." As he turned, he spat, and I said, "don't spit at me." When I said that, he spat and got back into his car. I turned, stupidly, and spat back at him. I can't see how any spit actually landed because my mouth was so dry following the abuse.

Ackland: Was he talking to you as he was spitting on you?

Jones: Um, he was very, yes, he was very angry. It was unintentional, it was the way that he was speaking, and because he was so angry that he had lost his place in the queue to get out, or maybe because I shouted at him, but he was very angry and I could see his face was very close to mine and it was the spit that enraged me. I pushed him back and I said, “don’t spit, don’t spit in my face,” and then he spat, and he got back in his car and I just thought, bastard, so I spat back at him. It was then that he got out of the car, in a rage, um, came at me, grabbed me by the throat, at the throat. My throat was being held, and, and something was being pulled, and he was screaming and shouting, and I just remember big glasses. I was just thinking, what’s this guy doing? And I pushed my hand forward into his face.

Ackland: He grabbed you by the throat…

Jones: He tried, he was clawing at my throat, then got hold of part of my clothing—I don’t know which part—I was aware of being pulled.

Ackland: How strong was the hold?

Jones: It, it wasn’t stopping me from breathing, but it certainly wasn’t comfortable, it certainly was unpleasant. I have no scale, no imaginary scale of how you measure the strength of someone’s grip, but at this point, it was physical. He physically attacked me before I defended myself. I pushed him away, but he was flailing, and I actually remember being bent down—I don’t know if I bent down because I was trying to avoid anything. I didn’t feel that I was seriously threatened now, but I don’t know how I felt then. I didn’t feel that my life was in danger, but I did feel the need to get this person off of me, and that’s what I did.

Ackland: And you said that you pushed him again?

Jones: I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know. At that point, that was when I pushed him just to get clear of the situation that was getting out of control.

Ackland: And how did you push him?

Jones: Just with my open hand.

Ackland: Whereabouts on his body did you push him?

Jones: I don’t know, I think it was his face, chin, I just…

Ackland: Then what happened?

Jones: He fell to the floor. I went over, I said, “come on, get up,” and then a witness came over to me and said, “that was uncalled for,” and I was shocked at that comment, and I said, “the guy attacked me,” and the guy said, “yeah—but that was a bit uncalled for.” Well, at that point, I thought, god, what did I do that was uncalled for? So I screamed for two people to phone because there was confusion all around. “Has somebody phoned an ambulance?” I said, “could you please phone the police and an ambulance,” and that was it.

Ackland: And you pushed the male away. Say, on a scale of 1-10, how hard do you think you pushed?

Jones: I don’t know, I don’t know. I would hope it wasn’t anything above 5. I’m not a particularly big bloke, I’m not particularly strong, but to be honest, I did lose my temper, I was acting for survival.

The defendant was given the opportunity to add or clarify anything further:

Jones: I’m happy the guy’s okay, I’m happy the guy’s okay because it was just a stupid argument that could have been avoided, and I have been berating myself all afternoon because I should have dealt with it differently. I should have walked away. I’m a calm, placid bloke, I am not aggressive. It just happened to be a bad day that this guy picked a fight with me and picked an argument with me, but at the end of the day, he should have just stayed in the fucking car. I have no reason to lie about what happened; that’s why I sat at the scene, that’s why I waited. I am not going to lie. I even turned the engine off on his car.

The defendant was given the opportunity to add or clarify anything further, Form 479 was issued, the interview was concluded at 20:39.